Q: When I asked you earlier about the whole retirement system, you used the phrase a 'perfect storm.' To a certain extent, when you look at the retirement situation in America, are you saying a storm is brewing?
Bogle: It's a generational storm that is coming in large measure because capitalism has gone astray. We have had what I describe in my book as a pathological mutation from traditional owners of capitalism, where the owners put up the capital and got the lion's share of the rewards, to a new form of managers' capitalism, where the managers, often aided by accountants and the financial system and the marketing system, are putting their own interest in front of the interests of the last-line owners, whether it's the direct owners -- the stockholders of America -- or the indirect owners --the pension beneficiaries, mutual fund shareholders and the like. They simply aren't getting a fair shake.